Thursday, August 28, 2014

Vietnamese Discriminating Against...Vietnamese?

During the three months of living alone in Vietnam, I had more time to get better acquainted with my Vietnamese friends. As such, I got multiple views into what living in Vietnam is like from their local perspective.

One topic that seemed to incite irritation and frustration was the workplace preferential treatment towards non-Vietnamese in general and Anglo-Saxon foreigners in particular. While this type of treatment may not be the norm across the country, it's a reality that some of my Vietnamese friends have encountered at some point in their professional career, or continue to face in their current job.

The following paraphrased anecdotes will give you an idea on what this kind of preferential treatment looks like.

"They don't know the local market."


One friend explained that a particular job position that required knowledge of the local market was filled by a foreigner mainly on the basis that they were a foreigner with a foreign education.

While the qualifications of said new hire were probably impressive in their own right, my friend explained that a local may have a better understanding of local market demands and purchasing habits, a qualification that should have been prioritized. My friend was confused and miffed to learn that someone who was less likely to possess such knowledge was potentially hired over plenty of local candidates who not only had that knowledge of the local markets, but also possessed the adequate education, relevant work experience, and language abilities.

"I don't even know why they were at the meeting!"


One friend described an instance when a foreigner was brought into a particular business meeting for the sole purpose of being the foreigner in the room.

Said foreigner didn't contribute to the discussion, and from what I recall from my friend's story, that person didn't even say anything at all. They just sat there.

My friend explained that sometimes foreigners are hired, perhaps at the expense of hiring a more qualified local person, mainly because having a foreigner present creates an element of prestige to be used to impress office colleagues or business partners.

"Foreigner teachers make much more, but have much less experience."


Many foreigners who live in Vietnam turn to teaching English as a way to pay the bills. It's a job that is relatively easy for foreigners to find, and the salary provides for a fairly comfortable lifestyle. However, you might be surprised to know that teaching English is also a sought after career for many local Vietnamese.

Two friends who teach English at two different English language schools both shared similar stories about how foreigners who have far less to practically no experience teaching English are automatically paid significantly more than local Vietnamese.

You might think that this is a no-brainer. "Of course foreigners should get paid more. They're native speakers." Yeah, not so fast.

It's worth remembering from a previous rant of mine that some of these foreign English teachers are NOT native speakers. They may have white skin, but that doesn't necessarily mean that English is their first language, that they're a native speaker, or that they're fully capable of teaching the nuances of the English language.

Furthermore, Vietnamese who have spent most of their adult lives learning the English language and who speak it with a high degree of proficiency are--as I and they themselves will vehemently argue--inherently more capable of teaching these subtle nuances in both English and Vietnamese, thus helping their students quickly and more thoroughly understand what they are learning.

These two friends explained that foreigners are likely to earn a salary that is at least four times higher than Vietnamese locals simply because the foreigners are assumed to be native speakers, bring more prestige and credibility to the school, and, as a consequence, attract more students. No regard is given to the actual quality of English instruction.

Why does it matter?


I took a number of insights away from these conversations.

First, the Asian inferiority/Western superiority complex is still very much alive and well in Vietnam. It's one thing to hear a foreigner talk about all of the perks that come with being an expat living in Vietnam. It's another thing to hear about how locals feel about it...and that's a side of the story that may make us feel much less comfortable.

Second, I've heard plenty of foreigners and overseas Vietnamese alike complain about getting ripped off whenever they go shopping for personal effects and souvenirs at the market. For some, this frustration may highlight a deeper feeling of resentment for not being treated equally as they might expect back in their home country. For a select few, this frustration might represent a more hidden feeling of disappointment for not being placed on the pedestal that they thought came with being a Westerner in an Asian country.

Whatever the case may be, what I don't think those who complain about such low-level variable pricing realize or want to recognize is that while they're getting overcharged by a few dollars at the market compared to their local counterparts, some locals are dealing with much larger personal, professional, and economical disadvantages due to deep-seated cultural and social beliefs in what, or rather, who is superior to who.

I realize that this might be an unfair and completely irrelevant comparison of discrimination to make. Nevertheless...

If you're an expat living in Vietnam and you don't like being overcharged at the market because you think that it's unfair, then would you also be comfortable with making the exact same wage as a local? Either instance is unfair to you. You just happen to benefit handsomely from one and are occasionally and mildly inconvenienced by the other.

If you're a tourist visiting Vietnam and you don't like the inequity you experience when you're shopping for trinkets or for fabric for that suit that you're about to have tailored on the cheap, then you might want to check your expectations at the immigration counter, because you're not in Kansas anymore. Yes, it's not pleasant or nearly as equal as you or I would like, but I suppose that's travel for ya'.

Third, locals like to have these honest and candid conversations. Locals definitely do notice the discrimination and bias towards foreigners, and some dislike it very much. Some recognize it for what it is: A lack of confidence in their own people. Despite acknowledging any challenges related to or dissatisfaction with their own government, society, or economy, at the end of the day, many Vietnamese are still proud to be Vietnamese. To be passed over by a foreigner based solely on the color of their skin is disheartening and frustrating. However, as with many other sensitive (nhạy cảm) topics, it's also less likely to be brought up in a conversation, especially when that conversation is with a foreigner, one who is likely to benefit from the perks of being foreign.

5 comments:

  1. As a Vietnamese who was born and fully raised in Sài Gòn, I find your blog, no offence, extremely ridiculous. Asian inferiority? Lmao, who is better at speaking several foreign languages and at maths at the same time than would otherwise be the case for … oops!

    One thing you should have known about the Vietnamese culture and her language is children are taught to pay much more respects for older people, which is certainly reflected in the personal pronouns used in different forms. We're more like the Eastern Asian (chinese, Japanese, Korean) rather than Southern Asian people (Indonesian, Fillo, etc.).

    I know what you're saying about a caucasian's higher probability of getting a job offer as a teacher of English than that of an Asian person who majored in English at Cambridge University in the UK. Nonetheless, this is nowhere near as true as the majority of expats thought it would be. I remembered back in 2003, when I was still a secondary school child studying English at VATC, there was an African American teacher who was the substitute teacher for our sick caucasian American teacher. We had so much fun with the guy that we begged him to become our teacher for the rest of the semester. We didn't even bother asking about his skin colour.

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    1. As an American relaying his own impressions about life in Vietnam, I thank you for taking the time to read this extremely ridiculous blog!

      Absolutely no offense taken because I have no idea what you're actually ranting about. Are you negating the stories my friends told me? Are you upset with how I interpreted them? Help me out here, Sai Gon Bloke. Did you read this post in its entirety?

      Regarding your experience with the African American teacher, congratulations, you're one of the few who had the opportunity to gain that level of exposure. I'll assume for the moment that many do not, and as such, hold on to many of the stereotypes and prejudices they're fed through media and pop culture. Having the exposure you had helps negate those stereotypes. So to that extent, great to hear that the school took a chance with hiring an African American to teach English in VN. We need more instances like this.

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    3. Sai Gon Bloke, you took the time to write a comment, one that I received in my inbox, and then you deleted it from my blog. I'll post it here so I can respond, and then I'll end the debate by saying that discourse with a stranger (especially one who opts not to use their real name) in the comment section of a blog is sisyphean task if I ever heard one.

      Here's your comment, I'll respond after:

      You wrote:

      "Ok. In case you didn't get the sarcasm, here it goes. How is it supposed to be the Asian inferiority whilst it is our cultural value to be kind and respectful to senior people, even with the one who is just few months or years older than us? So the greedy supremacists who ran around the world either killing asian people or enslaving african people are telling us about our culture? Seriously? Sorry but we don't have that sort of colour of privilege here. I, personally, would prefer to be a well-educated Viet to a person who still thinks the Brits stole the English language from his country.

      Sorry, I don't mean to spread any hatred, which I am not. Wouldn't it be nicer to understand people before judging them? For instance, I don't get it why the caucasian keep saying Vietnamese want to be one of them. Duh? The tan colour back then was considered as poverty in old social systems and it, in fact, represented the farmers or, in general, the working class. Thus, now every girl wants to look pale. Put it the other way round, the caucasians who go the beach want to become Asian right? Sigh!

      I remember that was an ignorant idiotic moron named Nomadic Matt who can't even speak a foreign language in his pathetic life told everyone that Vietnamese were racist. Yeah, caucasian Muricuns get, seemingly, discriminated much throughout the history of the country right! With respect with to this point, thank you for have made it quite clear in the post above. People from the culture of "me me me first" are always the victims of everything. Believe it or not, I have, on several occasions, witnessed muricuns, aussies and brits come to my country asking one another if the vietnamese receptionists were stupid due to her incomprehensible spoken English. First world citizens yeah! Ok!"

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    4. I realize that it might be hard or uncomfortable to grasp that non-Viets like me study and absorb knowledge about Vietnamese language and culture. It's a roundabout way of saying that I'm familiar with the cultural values you're trying teach me, as if you're trying to drop some knowledge on me because "how could a non-Viet possibly understand any of this."

      What your hidden reply sounds like is this:

      1) I, a non-Viet, collected a few insights from my local Viet friends that I found interesting, puzzling, and a bit disturbing. I wrote about it.
      2) You, a proud Vietnamese (based on your comment "I'd rather be a well-educated..."), took exception to a NON-Viet writing what he felt was a negative generalization about Vietnamese, and you decided to voice your opinion.

      Did I get this right?

      It's worth noting the following points:
      * I made sure to clarify that this wasn't meant to be a generalization when I opened with "While this type of treatment may not be the norm across the country, it's a reality that some of my Vietnamese friends have encountered at some point in their professional career, or continue to face in their current job."
      * You're mentioning of cultural values related to senior people doesn't related to any of the three anecdotes my local Viet friends shared with me.
      * I wasn't judging. I was relaying the experiences of my friends, combining my own insights, and voicing my opinion. My own insights include wondering why I see so many westerners on advertisements targeted at Vietnamese (yes, I see this in other E/SE Asian countries, but the scope of the convo is on VN right now).

      I've read comments like yours in other comment sections of news articles, especially articles related to the spat VN had with China. They usually come from someone who likes to comes across as being really pro-VN and proud to be Vietnamese. They won't stand for any negative comments about Vietnam.

      Then they usually turn the argument around by saying "yeah, well you Westerns are even MORE ugly," and then provide examples without addressing the original point of the argument.

      SGB, I appreciate you taking the time to comment on some random guy's blog to voice your opinion. However, I can't agree or disagree with your opinion, because it's pretty off base from my original post.

      If you disagree with my opinion, definitely create your own blog and make your voice heard. Or, find other blogs to read that fall in line with your world view.

      Lastly, feel free to use your real name in your responses.

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